NVLD and SCD means milder (at least usually) types of pervasive developmental disorders and other than “classical” types of “autism”. The terms NVLD or SCD have to be abolish for people who have developmental disorders with symptoms similar to more typical “species” of autism, but not so marked or not so severe. I would consider most people with NVLD and probably all with SCD as “autistic”. Children, who are “weird” have to be classified as ASD and PDD. The best symptom of it is problematic (or profound) developmental dyssemia (which has also PDD abbreviation) which means significant impairment in nonvrbal communication (such as lack of eye contact or inadequate facial expression).

NVLD and SCD are wrong terms. They tend to be use to describe people who are "softly autistic", not classically, "hardly" autistic. I think that labels such as "learning disorder" and "communication disorder" are apparent understatement. "Soft" autism has to be not so rigid as "hard". I am from Poland and have AS diagnosis (which is PDD and ASD). But I am definaately not like people with severe forms of AS, which are rather just atypical forms of classic autism with earlier speech development. "Hard" autism has not to be low-functioning. It may co-occur with above-average intelligence. The difference is mainly in cognitive and sensoric areas. Temple Grandin obviously has "hard" autism, her success does not change it. "Problematic developmental dyssemia" (PDD - the abbreviation is the same as for pervasive developmental disorder), which is marked developmental disorder in nonverbal communication, is the main symptom of both types of autism.

NVLD is not a learning disability in the traditional sense, but rather a life learning disability. It should be considered in terms of a pervasive developmental disability (assumes a severe, chronic disability that is present before the individual reaches the age of 21), rather than a learning disability. It causes substantial functional limitation in areas such as self-care, receptive and expressive language, learning, self-direction and mobility, as well as the capacity for independent living and economic self-sufficiency.
Pamela B. Tanguay, Nonverbal Learning Disabilities at School, 2002

NVLD is a really serious problem. The name is misleading. It is not only a learning disorder. Learning disorder is only one of the consequences.

Mild pervasive developmental disorder, "soft" autism  may be named as a social learning disability or social communication disorder, but these terms appear to be even larger understatements than the term "nonverbal learning disability" for a pervasive developmental disability. These weirdnesses are not only social disorders.

What about your visual-spatial and motoric abilities? I think that they are "real" (literal) NVLD. "Hard" autism tends to "think in pictures". "NVLD" is more or less good in verbal thinking but not so good in visual.

Asperger's population is a blend of some types of higher functioning classic, "hard" (but atypical due to earlier and better language development) autists and non-kanneric "soft" autists. Many of "soft" autists appear to have NVLD to quite different degree.

Hard autism affects really severely theory of mind, ability to cope with changes, verbal abilities. It also gives more extreme social and behavioral problems. Usually sensory integration is profoundly disturbed. It should be really easily noticed.

Soft autism has problematic developmental dyssemia and marked weirdness in emotions and behavior in its core. Often contains NVLD (visual-spatial-motor disorder), to a different degree. Sensory problems are not profound, but also can be problematic.

SCD (at least if someone is markedly "weird") is a type of "soft" autism. We have to use "harsh" terms such as (milder) pervasive developmental disorder or "soft autism" instead of understatements such as nonverbal lerning disorder, social communication disorder, social learning disability etc. I think that "bizarrity" is very often a core symptom of "soft autism", not restricted, repetitive or rigid pattern of behaviors, which characterizes hard, classical autism.

The names such as NVLD, SCD, SLD have (often) serious flaw - they may mislead and be understatements. They does not characterise "pervasivity" of the problems which the person and the family have. NVLD is a pervasive developmental disability, not just a "leasrning disorder". There is no NVLD in DSM-V. I do not think that it is wrong, the term NVLD is used really misleadingly. People with Asperger's diagnosis may be categorized into two main groups: classically autistic with really severe symptoms (such as profund lacks in theory of mind, very rigid thinking and serious sensory issues) and "softly" autistic with deep dyssemic symptoms (such as very poor eye contact or "stupid" facial expression) and bizarrities in emotional area, behaviors and interests, this group appear to be often classified as "just" NVLD without PDD, but it is a pervasive developmental problem. These children not so rarely are intelligent and have really good verbal skills.

Problematic developmental dyssemia appear to be a marked symptom of socio-emotional disability such as " developmental autistic pscyhopathy" (Asperger's syndrome). Blatantly dyssemic symptoms (such as very poor eye contact) are signs of really serious mental problem. It is a function of pervasive developmental disability (PDD, such as "full-blown" NVLD syndrome which affects not only visual, spatial and motoric areas, but also social, emotional, behavioral - de facto a type of AS for me) and has to be cured really early, it should be detected at pre-school age!

I think that it is very wrong to say: "It is safe to say that all forms of NVLD or all people with NVLD, but without "classical" autistic symptoms, have not AS and PDD". NVLD is rather a cognitive profile. It is NOT a learning disability, it is something MORE SERIOUS and naming it as just "learning disability" or "learning disorder" is even somewhat "offensive". Many forms of NVLD are pervasive developmental disabilities, when it has marked emotional, behavioral, social, communicational (especially in nonverbal area) consequences and has to be classified as a PDD (for example as a type of sperger's syndrome), not as LD. Classification as LD diminises negative consequences of the disorder. It has to be detencted or cured in really early childhood, before going to school.

Most people with NVLD appear to have PDD/AS/ASD for me, but not of "traditional" sort. Pure NVLD has no imapct on social or emotional area (especially in pre-pubertal age), it is just a disability in academic areas ("gives" visual or spatial problems). "Hard", classical autism is in many aspects opposite to so-called (social) NVLD. Hard autism has troubles with language, "NVLD" has strenght in it; NVLD has a weakness in visual tinking, classic autism can give you really strong visual thinking. "Global" NVLD is a pervasive developmental disorder (maybe not in classical terms), "academic" NVLD is more specific, not generalized disability. "Global" NVLD affects emotional, social, behavioral or even sensory areas rather than academic (at least in some cases, which are "high-cognitive autism"). "Global NVLD" has its cognitive profile (found at about 50 - 80% people with AS diagnosis), but it is not only a learning problem or style - it has also marked social communication issues and "bizarrities", which makes this "hypocritical" condition a complex developmental disorder.

For me really many cases of NVLD are forms of something more than a learning disorder - it is often not a specific disability, but a pervasive developmental disorder, which means really serious problem. Current definition of PDD is wrong (too much is about restrictiveness, rigidity and repetitiveness). Some forms NVLD are models of milder, "soft" PDD. People with PDD are "odd" and "weird", unlike those who have just learning problems. PDD is socio-emotional counterpart of intellectual disability and NVLD tends to be in that category, PDD may range from really mild to extreme (which is profound disability), even more severe forms of PDDs does not exclude above-average intelligence.

"Global" NVLD may not be an academic disability at all. It is a type of "soft autism", not a specific disorder of scholastic skills.

  Maybe even all types of NVLD (also those without social and emotional disorders!) should be categorized in the same category as (especially high-functioning) classic autism. Severe (also non-social) NVLD looks not like a specific develpomental disorder.

  NVLD which can be diagnosed as Asperger's or PDD-NOS is a "pervasive developmental disorder" in all cases, main problems of it are not scholastic skills. It makes people "stupid", weird or even aloof. Specific developmental disorders (learning disabilities) are not destructive in "socio-emotional area", "pervasive developmental disorder" of any degree of severity (from very mild to relly profound) tend to have "socio-emotional" problems as its hallmark.

  Many people with PDDs (especially in USA and Canada) looks to be misdiagnosed as "pure" NVLD.

  NVLD-typed PDD (without traits of classical autism) has such symptoms:

- very poor nonverbal communication (especially expressive)
* very poor eye contact,
* "stupid" or stiff gaze,
* limited and (or) idiosyncratic facial expression and gestures,
* troubles with interpersonal distances),
- paralinguistic and pragmatic issues (are also not uncommon)

- the pattern of interests is odd, they rather not are so profoundly restricted as in classic autism,
- interests are often  atypical, may be "obsessive", repetitive;
- limited and idiosyncratic interests can be found also in social area
- they may have uncontrollable and "loud" laughter at inappropiate situations, but things, which are funny to "neurotypical" person, for then may not always be funny
- they may lack shame in many normal situations and feel indiosyncratic shame
- there may be odd customs, routines, rituals, but there is also lack of marked and somewhat disabling  "classically autistic" fixation about sameness
- Unusual thinking is not uncommon (such as:
* strange, specific, abnormal fears,
* grandiose fantasies,
* "magical" obsessive-compulsive symptoms,
* bizarre ideas)
- the person may look superficially mature and "adult", but is rather very immature and socio-emotionally disabled due to own PDD

  Many methods used to educate children with classical ASDs are unuseful for then, because they have other needs and other way of thinking than "typical" autistics.

  Many people with these symptoms may be diagnosed with Asperger's, which is not wrong; Aspreger's criteria in ICD-10 or DSM-IV may be quite easily meet by some people without more profound traits of  "kanneric" autism.

  Some people with NVLD profile and without "kanneric" traits may be less weird, but also may have social problems, for me they also ave a "PDD", not just a learning disorder.

  The definition of "pervasive developmental disorder" in ICD-10  is not ideal. It should be not about "restrictiveness and repetitiveness", but about severe social impairment and "bizarrity" (which maybe may do not bring any "restrictiveness" and "repetitiveness" in some cases). The best sign of a PDD is seroius impairment of expressive nonverbal communication for me ("profound" developmental, chronic dyssemia). It may make people looking "retard" by itself.

There is no term "pervasive developmental disorder" in DSM-V.

The definition of PDD in ICD-10 is too much about "restrictiveness" and "repetitiveness". I think that many cases of NVLD have to be categrorized in the same group of disabilities as "kanneric" autism, not as a "specific developmental disorder", "specific learning disability".

Some forms of NVLD may be rather developmental socio-emotional disabilities, such as classical autism, which is more severe type od "complex" developmental disorder.

NVLD is a complex (not specific!) developmental disorder. It can bring all of them: social, emotional, behavioral issues, idiosyncratic thinking, sensory integration issues. NVLD is misnamed and misclasified. NVLD, such as "kanneric" autism, is a complex developmental disorder.

Some complex developmental disorders:

- classic autism (spectrum) - rather severe to profound
- "nonverbal learning disorder" (spectrum?, current term too misleading, not all cases of NVLD give socio-emotional disability) - rather mild to moderate
- multiple-complex developmental disorder - may be severe
- pathological demand avoidance syndrome - not very severe
- Rett's syndrome - rather profound
- childhood disintegrative disorder - rather profound

NVLD just HAS to be lumped into "pervasive developmental disorder" cathegory. It would be just. NVLD is a pervasive developmental disability, "life learning disability", not a specific learning disability. When it gives characteristic socio-emotional problems it may be correctly nicknamed as "soft autism". It is not a "specific learning disability". The diagnosis of Asperger's is not wrong in the case of NVLD. AS consists of subtypes, one of them is classically autistic and tend to be severe, other one is NVLDish, which tend to be milder than previous, but still very destructive, there may be also other subtypes of disorders classified currently as AS. Classic autists think in pictures, have many conceptul social problems and not so small sensory dysfunction. "NVLD" is more "hypocritical" than classical autism, it may look rather as just giftedness (especially in VERBAL area) in some cases, not like a developmental delay. Many NVLD people without "hard" autstic traits may be not improperly labelled "autistic", but it is NOT typical developmental autism. I have AS diagnosis, but "social NVLD" describes me quite well, unlike "standard" model of Asperger's, which is very like high-functioning childhood autism. Social NVLD is bookish type of "soft autism". First diagnostic criteria of PDD in ICD-10 or DSM-IV is about nonverbal communication impairment. It appears to be a hallmark of almost all PDDs, from very mild to profound. Mentality of people with NVLD may look like "hybrid" of autistics and neurotypicals (IQ can also vary, but verbal abilities can be really good). They are really odd, blatantly not "psychotypical", but obviously not classically autistic. Learning disability is (or even may be) only one of the consequences of having ths sort of "autism". Classifyng many cases of NVLD as just "learning disorder" is unjust for me, because it definately does not describe problems of people who have it. PDD name describes rather general impact of the disorder to entire life (social, emotional, occupational), may not mean serious developmental problems such as speech and language difficulties, marked sensory dysfunction or blatant restrictiveness. Current definition of PDD in ICD-10 looks wrong for me, there is too much about "restrictiveness and repetitiveness". I feel more closer to NVLDers (especially those with "socio-emotional dysfunction") than to people with HFA or "classic" AS. They may be for me nearly as far as "psychotypical" people. But maybe some people with high-functioning classical ASD have higher level of general functioning than some with "just-NVLD" diagnosis.

I am somewhat probably more like neurotypical "nerd" than like an "aspie". I do not have necessity of the sameness, I think that I am good in social understanding. But I have Asperger's diagnosis. My nonverbal communication is rather severely impaired (very poor eye contact, "strange" gaze, mimics), somewhat limited, idiosyncratic interests (also in social area). I may be a "hybrid" of NVLD, giftedness and autisticity, not "pure-blood" aspie.

Pure NVLD is probably rare (or maybe even unpresent?) and it is visual-spatial(-motor) impairment without social, emotional, behavioral, sensory anomalies.

Pure giftedness does not make you a "weirdo" or "oddbird", it is homogenous development (without dyssemia or problems with shoelaces).

Pure autisticity makes you disabled, you have severe deficits in theory of mind, very rigid brain and marked sensory dysfunction then.

It is definately something more than a specific learning disorder. The name "learning disorder" is barely unjust in many cases. It severely underestimates the troubles which are caused by the disorder. NVLD with socio-emotonal impairment should have new, "serious" name. Social communication disorder is also not so good name. SCD is probably often just a (really important) symptom of "autisticity". Communication disorders should not make you "weird" and "odd", but pervsive developmental disorders make you that by definition. Very long bullying due to just a learning of communication disorder is especially illogical. Bullying is always evil, but why someone thinks about a person with just a "lerning or communication disorder" as a person, who is "debilitated", "stupid"? How many people have dyslexia or some speech problems and are really normal, unlike "NLDers"? Many. Changing the name of "NVLD" is for me really important think. I am from Central Europe and maybe I have the biggest interest in NVLD in my country (it may looks like Aspergian obsession :) ). I was diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome, but I do not feel as one of "aspies". NVLD is not so much known in my country. People with NVLD will probably be diagnosed with AS or other (milder) PDD here, which is... correct, unlike saying that it is "just learning and communication problem" which is common in Northern America. "NVLD" is functionally and generally (also in the terms of social reception) too close to mild forms of "classical" autism to be not included in PDD category. Many forms of "NVLD" are just types of "soft autism" for me and may be at least nicknamed so. Those with "non-classical" autism shout have significantly less rigid mind (wider interests, but still abnormal themes or strenght are not uncommon; sameness may tends to be rather boring for them, also better central coerence and theory of mind, less apparent sensory problems), which make it "soft" and "elastic" type of "autism", opposite to "hard" and "rigid", which is also more severe by definition.

I think that all people with "bright" autism HAVE to be put into one category, no matter what their learning style is. I think that system which blatantly separates people with strikingly similar "developmental phenotype" is flawed and there HAS to be a term and a category, a spectrum for all of them.

It my be named for example "aucorigia spectrum" (first word - is from the term "autocontrast" and "originality", which also sounds "like autism" due to its beginning, it describes bright, but mentally inept people classified quite typically AS and NVLD, i think that the word is really fitting).

People on the aucorigia spectrum are one big family, they are just grouped together, not "violently" separated by the labels and criteria of ASD, Asperger's, PDD, NVLD, SCD and other conditions.

I know in my contry some people who looks strikingly aucorigal for me, and they may have moderate or even severe level of "general" disability.

I think that there are four main clusters of "aucorigians":

*Ia - less severe generally, contains people with really very mild classically autistic traits and "non-pervasive" types of NVLD;
*Ib - brightest classically autistic people, they have real disability due to it, but are still not so "bad" and may be smart and talented;
*IIa - it looks for me as the clade for most NVLDers, who have marked school learning problems, but also social problems from early childhood,
*IIb - most "nerdy" (low level of academic and cognitive difficulties, it allows the aucorigia to mask well which is seriously dangerous - you may be named as just "gifted" but emotionally disturbed due to it, not as having "pervasive developmental problem") cluster, people are autistic-like, weird and nerd in it.

I name the group of disorders, to which belong for example HFA and "NVLD", "soft" or "bright" autism (especially for not classically autistic disorders, such as "NVLD"), "aucorigic spectrum" (significantly wider and more heterogenous than autistic spectrum from DSM-V), "disorders of "that" type", "realtively mild "pervasive" developmental disorders", ""nerd" syndromes"... They look to give not only social ineptitude, but even "life" ineptitude. They often have strange obsessiveness in them as one of the symptoms. They have more or less "general" intelligence. They rather give serious problems since early childhood, someone with disorder of "that" type is often wieved as "odd", "stupid", "dorks", "weird", "naughty", "hyperactive" and so on. Classic autism is not the only form of "relatively mild PDD"! Dyssemia looks as a really good symptom of them. Severe dyssemia is the "first" criterium of autism or AS in ICD-10. Eye contact tend to often be really poor, especially in children. People with "soft autism" may be not so interested in "neurotypical" human relations, they may be very boring or obsessed about someone or "strange" traits of people, such as specific abnormalities in appearance of the body. They may laugh at very, very inappriopiate situations and do not feel shame when it is normal and beneficial, they may also have "idiosyncratic" shame or disgust (for example to some types of vehicles). They may tend to have some (more or less) hyperactivity, hypokinetic or (and) hyperkinetic behaviors, stimming, sensory problems, OCD symptoms, "strange" thinking and atypical fears, literal interpretations, learning abnormalities, clumsiness. They are ideal victims of school mobbing and bullying.

NVLD is very bad name for socio-emotional disorder. The name is NOT serious for me. It is quite gross understatement. I think that people with "NVLD" have "relatively mild "pervasive" developmental disorder", something which I (nick)named "bright" autism, "soft" autism, aucorigia, "nerd" syndrome... I had and rather still have magical or bizarre thinking and I think that it is NOT a symptom of "learning disability" or "giftedness", but a symptom of (very) mild multiple-complex developmental disorder (which is a PDD with not only autistic, but also other specific "bizarrities", especially "schizo-like"). The name for so devastating disorder has to be hard, like "autism", "PDD", "Asperger's", "McDD", not "wimpy" like "nonverbal learning disorder", "social communication disorder", "emotional disorder" (such as neurotic or mood disorder), "hyperactivity", "normal personality traits" or even just "schizotypal" or "schizophrenic" (schizotypal and schizophrenic disorders are NOT developmental disorders, but PDDs are). Not all people with"NVLD" are so "weird" as I. But I like to name NVLD as a sort of "aucorigia" (the term is from autocontrast (something such s "asynchronous development" and orignality)). Classic high-functioning autism (also in "Aspie" form) is an other type of aucorigia.

NVLD should be just a disorder of "scholastic" skills, without ANY connotations to social, emotional, behavioral and sensory areas. I strongly dislike using the term NVLD to describe socio-emotional disorder. I think that it is a gross error and understatement which has to be stopped as fast as possible. "NVLD" (especially "social" one) - it is just "bright", "soft" sort of AUTISM. NVLDers can be properly named as high-functioning (but not "classical") autistics and PDDers for me. The name "learning disorder" or "communication disorder" is blatantly wimpy and inadequate for me.

Aucorigia is  “pervasive developmental disability” which makes someone “weird and odd” due to atypical social, emotional and behavioral (SEB) symptoms. It appears to be a classic case of aucorigia (autocontrast – asynchronous development and originality) due to very high IQ. Aucorigia is synonymous with relatively high functioning PDD and ASD. It is mainly SEB dysfunction, not a learning problem. It makes someone “nerdy” or worse. Unusual thinking looks like McDD (multiple-complex developmental disorder) trait, McDD is often a psychotic type of aucorigia. All “NVLD” is at least “phenotypical” aucorigia. Typical aucorigia has apparent SEB symptoms before school age. “NVLD”-based aucorigia is the most “hypocritical” one, types with classic autistic and McDD traits are more “apparent” and easier to notify. Classical aucorigia is “toxic” giftedness (“Gift” means venom in German language), so these children are twice exceptional and twice “gifted” (with mental gift of meaning of both English and German language).

NVLD should be classified as a pervasive developmental disability when it makes someone "weird and odd" since childhood.

Social, emotional and behavioral anomalies are significant even in the pre-school age in PDD, but they may not be so apparent when a child just does not to school.

* Lack of eye contact and other nonverbal communication impairments,
* strange "rituals" and emotional reactions,
* bizarre thinking,
* hyperkinetic and hyperactive behaviors,
* sensory problems,
* idiosyncratized or (and) restricted social interests,
* "atypicality" of interests
are signs of ASD, not learning or communication problems.

"Really" high-functioning PDDs appear like something similar to "just" intellectual giftedness.

But they are "gifted" also with "Gift" from German language, where that word means "poison", "venom". They are "twice GIFTed".

They tend to have at least VIQ or PIQ in above-average range, gap may be quite large, but it is not a requirement.

Interests are "globally" wider than in typical ASD (but may be "strange", "impractical", "childish"), speech may be really normal, literal interpretations may be anomalously rare.

Clumsiness is not uncommon. They may look very "nerdy", with intelligence, social ineptitude and obsession. Birth weight may be often really low, below 5th centile.

In some cases it may be something like "mild" form of multiple-complex developmental disorder (a PDD which blends traits of autism spectrum and schizophrenia spectrum), which leads to confusion between fiction and reality or (and) severe emotional dysregulation in its classic form. In "really high-functioning PDD" unusual and magical, bizarre thinking may be present.

NVLD with social problems has to be named as a "soft" autism, not a learning disorder. It is irritating when someone names "weird" and "odd" child as "learning disabled" instead of "autistic". NVLD is not classical autism, but when it co-occurs with marked social ineptitude, obsessiveness and "bizarre" symptoms, it should be named as a pervasive developmental dysfunction. I have Asperger's diagnosis but I have obsessive doubts about it because I think that my "quirkiness" may be just a LD or neurotic disorder. There is probably more children with "bare" NLD diagnosis who are highly socially inept and have strange interests and thinking. Someone even supposed that I may have McDD (multiple-complex developmental disorder, which looks quite psychotic in its classical form) or something from schizophrenia spectrum. I think that named my problem as just NVLD would be very hurtful and misleading. I was good in Maths, I like maps very much and like vivid colors. It is definately not "eneldian". But i think that NVLD without socio-emotional-behavioral problems should be named as "phenotype" of "eneldian" sort of "soft" autism. NVLD is too destructive and weird to be not a pervasive developmental dysfunction. Naming it as just a learning disorder may look not serious. I strongly dislike this terminology.

I know about dyscalculia, it is more "narrow" math disability than "full-blown" NVLD. Dyscalculia is mainly about numbers, counting... NVLD has (mainly) problems with visual and spatial skills. Learning disabilities should be "only" about scholastic skills, NVLD should be just visual-spatial(-motor) disorder, not a serious socio-emotional problem.

I want to fight with NVLD and SCD terminology and replace it with (high-functioning) autism and PDD.

Main symptoms of pervasive developmental dysfuction are in three areas:
1. social
* nonverbal communication impairment (expressive or (and) receptive), such as poor eye contact, inadequate facial expression and gestures;
* limited and (or) idiosyncratized social needs (troubles with social reciprocity);
* failure in maintaining relationships (especially with peers);
2. emotional
* inadequate emotional reactions;
* atypical, bizarre emotional reactions (such as uncontrollable and (or) inadequate laughter, disturbed feeling of shame);
* high anxiety, strange fears;
* emotional "immaturity);
3. behavioral
* specific pattern of interests ("strange", "obsessive", "restricted", "impractical");
* obsessive-compulsive symptoms;
* hyperkinetic behaviors or (and) stimming.

This group of symptoms (social, emotional and behavioral, SEB) should be the best indicator of ASD and PDD.

When they are present from (relatively early) childhood, "pervasive developmental disorder" occurs for me. They make someone "weird" and "odd". Other symptoms, such as clumsiness, sensory problems, hyperactivity, language problems are also very often present in this group (in different level of severity).  But SEB triad is the most core group of symtoms for me.

noclaut napisał:

NVLD and SCD means milder (at least usually) types of pervasive developmental disorders and other than “classical” types of “autism”. The terms NVLD or SCD have to be abolish for people who have developmental disorders with symptoms similar to more typical “species” of autism, but not so marked or not so severe. I would consider most people with NVLD and probably all with SCD as “autistic”. Children, who are “weird” have to be classified as ASD and PDD. The best symptom of it is problematic (or profound) developmental dyssemia (which has also PDD abbreviation) which means significant impairment in nonvrbal communication (such as lack of eye contact or inadequate facial expression).

I think that the term "nonverbal learning disability" should be used only for visual, spatial (and maybe motoric) problems. But this "pure" NLD still may be really problematic, not only in scholastic, but also in occupational area.

I suppose that I have a mild form of NLD. I am poor visual thinker, somewhat clumsy and a good verbal learner. I do not have "autistic" talents such as really good visual thinking or eidetic memory.

Social, emotional and behavioral developmental disorders are so similar to "classic" autism to be classified as a "learning disability".

I think that "NLD" and "classic ASD" have to be classified under one name in one category (NLD is more destructive than dyslexia and (at least most, I think) forms of ADHD). I think that classification of developmental disorders used in America is not good, it is even harmful and inadequate in some cases.

"Socio-emotional-behavioral developmental disorders" (SEBDD, such as "classic" ASD or (at least many cases of) NLD) or intellectual disability are "complex developmental disorders" (CDDs) for me, dyslexia or isolated speech problems are the examples of "specific developmental disabilities" (SDDs). If you have a CDD, you could  be rather easily named by others as "stupid", "odd", "weird", if you have just SDD, you are rather "normal".

Severe dyssemia and obsessiveness are for me the most common signs of SEBDDs.

Not deficits in the theory of mind, rigid thinking, poor scholastic skills, severe sensory problems... You may have really mild problems in these areas and still be really inept. "NLD" has not to be "generally" milder than high-functioning "classic" ASD.

I think that in Poland people with something which is named “nonverbal learning disorder” in America would be often diagnosed with Asperger’s. I think that someone with NVLD diagnosis not always will have higher level of functioning than someone with “classical” Asperger’s or other high-functioning ASD. I read that NLD is a “silent, serious and complex developmental disability”. Autism was also called “serious and complex developmental disability” – I wrote this phrase in Google and there were links about NLD and autism. NLD appears to be something MUCH worse than dyslexia. I would classify dyslexia as “specific developmental disorder” and “NLD” as “complex developmental disorder”. Autism and intellectual disability are other examples of “complex developmental disorder”. It looks that most people with NLD diagnosis have serious social and (or) emotional problems. So it is definately something worse than a “specific disorder of scholastic skills”. “NLD” almost certainly has different etiology than “classical” form of Asperger’s. I think that “NLD” has to be classified in the same group of developmental disorders as “classic” Asperger’s. “NLD” should not be classified as just “learning” problem. It is too complex and destructive.

I agree that the terms such as NLD or SCD are confusing. NLD and SCD are rather groups of the symptoms of PDDs. I read about quite disabling condition which is rather unknown in my country - SCT (sluggish cognitive tempo). I think that I may have even quite severe form of it. It makes somebody daydreaming, spacey, lethargic and sluggish. I do not have larger scholastic difficulties because of them, but it makes somebody "generally slow", "sleepy-like" or "as in the fog". But I wrote that I was described as "hyperactive" or even "hyperkinetic" somewhen in the past... I think that I rather have SCT (maybe even form early childhood), it is irritating for many people (such as my parents) and it is something not so good... It is somewhat like having below-average IQ or maybe even worse is some situations than low IQ. It may make someone more socially inept, withdraw and isolated. I have rather limited social needs. I sometimes can feel like somebody who is handicapped, maybe also because of SCT symptoms. I think that it could be in the ASD or PDD criteria such as sensory integration disorder symptoms in DSM-V.  I think that I am not so high-functioning due to SCT as I thought.

I thought a lot about NVLD. I went to the conclusion that there is great confusion about this term. NVLD is just visual-spatial(-motor) learning disorder. It does not have to cause social ineptitude! Most NVLDers are just Aspies to me. I think that "classic" Asperger's is just a subtype of classic, Kanner(-like) autism. "NVLD" is another branch of PDDs to me. "NVLD syndrome" is a PDD to me. I think that it is a PDD even without obsessiveness or stimming. The definition of PDD in ICD-10 is too strict. I think that in ICD-11 there should be a PDD which will be the counterpart of current "NVLD". I (nick)named it as "oververbal autism". It appears to have different etiology than "rigid" autism. "Female manifestation of AS" may be a subtype of it.

Not all sorts of “nonverbal learning disabilities” cause social ineptitude, especially in childhood. I would classify that sorts of “NLD” which cause “social disability” as pervasive developmental disorders and sorts of autism. Social/emotional issues of “NLD” described in Dinklage’s article are symptoms of something more serious than just a LD for me. For me sorts of “NLD” which has such issues are types of “aspieness”, not (only) learning problems!

http://luckyottershaven.com/2015/04/09/ … ment-15691



For me this diagram is not so good. "Classic Asperger's" is more similar to childhood autism (Kanner's syndrome) than Rett's disorder and childhood disintegrative disorder. Classic AS and Kanner's syndrome belong to one "etiological" spectrum, they are so similar! Rett's and CDD are significantly other than Kanner's and are of other families of PDDs in my opinion, unlike "classic Asperger's".

For me much of "NLD" cases are cases of PDD due to "Aspergian" symptoms such as for example:
- one-sided conversation,
- fixated interests,
- "loner" personality,
- lack of basic social skills,
- unusual thinking etc.
And I would name this sorts of "NLD" as sorts of autism! Non-Aspergian NLDs do not contain symptoms listened above. These sort of NLD are not sorts of psycho(neuro)developmental syndromes characterised by social inadequacy and peculiarity.

Not all sorts of (developmental) autism should be associated with:
- lack of theory of mind,
- lack of central coherence,
- language and speech problems,
- sensory processing anomalies,
- rigid thinking and routines etc.
These symptoms are characteristic only for one sort or family of something which I would name as "(developmental) autism".

I think that NVLD can be more disabling than ASD lvl 1 or mild ID in some cases.
NVLD is not like dyslexia, it is more like autism spectrum disorder and in my opinion it has to be counted as a pervasive developmental disorder, not a specific one. Most of NVLDers can be (by extension) named as "autistic" in my opinion. NVLD is something like "autism-type disorder", "autismotypal disorder", which is analogous to schizotypal disorder, schizoprenia-type disorder. The same with SCD.
I think that the definition of PDD has to be broaden to include NVLD, especially or at least NVLD with social ineptitude or peculiarity. SCD should also be in one subgroup of developmental disorders with ASD.

I strongly disagree with the opinion seen on that page: https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think … in-the-DSM (Question: What do you think about the way that all forms of NVLD have been grouped under ASD in the DSM?)

I think it’s stupid.

I often call the DSM the “Damn stupid manual”.

NLD is not autism. Sure, there are some similarities, but there are lots of differences too - differences that ought to affect treatment and that certainly affect prognosis.

Perhaps the biggest difference is that many people with autism are very visual thinkers; Temple Grandin even wrote a book called Thinking in Pictures. NLDers, on the other hand, tend to be very verbal thinkers. We are bad at the nonverbal stuff.

Another difference is stimming. While the proportion of NLDers who stim is probably higher than in the general population, it is surely lower than the proportion of autistic people who do.

And interpersonal relations also are different.

I think that preventing NVLD individuals to be in one category of developmental disorders with ASD is a disservice to NVLDers because it underestimates the severity of NVLD. I have rather NVLD than ASD and have no friends and colleagues (and may even not have so much need to have them), my nature appears to not crave for social acceptation and being loved. I am rather verbal thinker and have VIQ significantly higher than PIQ and think that in USA I would not be diagnosed with ASD/PDD.

Maybe not all, but many NVLD forms could be named "autism" in my opinion. So I would disagree (at least in some way) with the opinion that NVLD is NOT autism. For me "social communication disorder" from DSM-V is a sort of autism. For me everything which makes a child socially inadequate and peculiar is "autism". Schizoid childhood disorder is also "autism" for me.